How To Be The CMO Who Gets Tapped For Board Seats

Erica Seidel: 00:00:03

Hello, and welcome to The Get.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:05

I'm your host, Erica Seidel.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:07

This season we examine the relationship between CMOs and Boards.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:11

How can that relationship go from fraught to functional,

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and maybe even to fantastic?

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Today, we hear from Sandra Lopez.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:19

She is a marketing dynamo who has been in marketing, leadership, and general manager

Erica Seidel: 00:00:23

roles in many of the world's biggest and most influential tech companies

Erica Seidel: 00:00:27

like Adobe, Intel, and Microsoft.

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She recently served as co-chair for the World Economic Forum for

Erica Seidel: 00:00:33

Augmented Reality and Virtual Reality.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:36

She also serves on the Board of Directors for Junior Achievement USA and PureRED.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:41

She's an advisor for Cabra Sports and is the co-chair for

Erica Seidel: 00:00:45

Sports Integrity Global Alliance.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:47

You'll hear about how to educate the Board on how long things take in marketing.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:51

As she says, it's hard to educate someone in thirty minutes, so

Erica Seidel: 00:00:54

you have to think creatively.

Erica Seidel: 00:00:56

You'll also learn about how to prepare for a Board position and

Erica Seidel: 00:00:59

how to put your best foot forward when you interview with a Board.

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And, we discuss how nonprofit Board work, chosen wisely, can be a great

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segue to for-profit Board work.

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Here we go.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:15

Sandra Lopez, welcome to the show.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:17

Glad to have you on The Get and excited to hear your perspectives.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:21

Thank you for having me on board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:22

Looking forward to having this conversation.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:24

Maybe you could just start by sharing an overview of your

Erica Seidel: 00:01:27

career path, cuz it's been such an interesting path that you've followed.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:31

You know, you know your B2B marketing, you know your B2C marketing, you know brand,

Erica Seidel: 00:01:35

you know demand, like the whole shebang.

Erica Seidel: 00:01:36

Can you kind- kind of just, you know, coalesce it a little bit?

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:40

I always like to say I was kind of born and bred in Silicon Valley,

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:42

so technology at the heart of everything.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:45

And I always had the aspiration to be a Chief Marketing Officer.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:48

And, without anybody telling me as a mentor or sponsor, I just

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:53

wanted to do my own journey.

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:54

I wanted to create my own music, and so I created my own songbook in terms

Sandra Lopez: 00:01:58

of what could that possibly look like.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:01

And what I knew is that whenever I became a CMO, I really wanted to

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:05

understand the various solutions of what entailed marketing.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:08

So I jumped from small company to large company, did everything

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:13

from lead generation to brand strategy, worked in New York

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:18

City, came back to Silicon Valley.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:21

And so I would say that my career trajectory, I always have to

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:25

say the analogy, in, like, ways.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:26

I directionally knew where I wanted to go, but I also allowed myself to

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:30

explore the unexpected neighborhoods.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:33

And that's where I did a pivot into the business unit, running a

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:38

division, in particular wearables.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:40

And then I went into sports media.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:42

And a couple things I learned from that pivot.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:45

One, I learned things about myself that I didn't know I was capable of,

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:48

whether it's business development, effectively managing a P&L.

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:53

And then how important it was to understand business language when

Sandra Lopez: 00:02:59

it came to leading a marketing organization and driving those

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:04

conversations to a C-level leadership team and/or your Board of Directors.

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:09

And so I'm unconventional.

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:11

Typically know where I wanna go, but I allow myself to explore

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:14

and, and I will continue to do so.

Erica Seidel: 00:03:17

I love this ways analogy.

Erica Seidel: 00:03:19

I think that's great.

Erica Seidel: 00:03:20

Do you think everybody who's an aspiring CMO should take a GM role,

Erica Seidel: 00:03:26

or do you think it's, like, enough for them to kind of take a GM perspective

Erica Seidel: 00:03:30

within their marketing domain?

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:33

Listen, I think everybody has their own journey, and all I can share

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:38

is my particular point of view based on the type of leader that I want to be.

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:43

So if I'm a CMO focused on tangible business, we know that oftentimes when

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:50

we're on an economic pitch, what happens?

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:52

Your budget's decreased, headcount marketing's one of the first organizations

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:57

that are going to be impacted.

Sandra Lopez: 00:03:59

But if you change the conversation and be able to illustrate how

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:02

marketing drove tangible growth and/or helped enter into adjacent

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:08

markets, I do believe understanding running a P&L is very, very important.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:13

You're much more attuned to, we're gonna do a brand strategy.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:17

Let's think about potential ASP uplift.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:20

Let's do some financial modeling, work very closely with the CFO.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:24

Um, and not working closely with the CFO in the context of like,

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:27

what's your, you know, above the line, below the line budget.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:29

It's a very different conversation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:31

If you wanna be a CMO that's really leaning into creativity, then maybe

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:38

not necessarily you don't have to become a GM and you're looking at

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:42

more psychology, sociology, and becoming much more of a culturist.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:46

So I think it really depends on what type of CMO you wanna be.

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:50

And I try to do a hybrid of growth that in order to be a great CMO,

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:53

you need to understand your consumer and where they're going and what's

Sandra Lopez: 00:04:58

happening around them, both for business customer and/or a consumer customer.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:03

And at the same time really understanding like, how do you drive marketing as a P&L?

Erica Seidel: 00:05:10

Makes sense.

Erica Seidel: 00:05:11

Can you share, since we're talking a lot about, you know, CMOs and

Erica Seidel: 00:05:14

Board relationships, can you share a hard-won lesson you have had, um,

Erica Seidel: 00:05:18

from interacting with, with a Board?

Erica Seidel: 00:05:20

Any Board?

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:21

I always like to say strategy without

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:22

execution's pure hallucination.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:23

So I like to be a strategist and be able to execute with my team.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:27

The role of a Board of Directors is ask the hard questions so you can help guide

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:33

them and advise them towards, you know, their overall trajectory in terms of

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:36

whatever their strategic imperatives are.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:38

And so moving from the doing and advising and knowing when to step

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:43

back has been the mental rigor and challenge that I've had to take on.

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:49

So it's really about asking the right questions and providing point of view,

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:55

and, ultimately, it's the C-level and the leadership team that have to decide

Sandra Lopez: 00:05:59

what's best for the organization.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:01

So that shift was a struggle for me, and I still find myself sometimes wanting

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:06

to, like, roll up my sleeves, help drive some of the strategies to execution.

Erica Seidel: 00:06:11

Is there something you tell yourself when you're worried that

Erica Seidel: 00:06:14

you're gonna kind of dive into execution and, and, but you want, really wanna

Erica Seidel: 00:06:17

come up with a good question instead?

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:20

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:20

I have to remind myself every single time when I'm either part of the

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:22

committee conversation and/or at the Board meeting, and we're having the

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:26

one-to-one with the CEO, remember, my responsibility and accountability is to

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:32

advise them towards the right path based on the goals that we have all agreed to,

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:38

and knowing when to take a step back.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:41

And so I do that in every single interaction.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:45

A lot of it's just practicing, right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:46

So I'm fairly new about a, you know, over a year in, in Junior Achievement,

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:50

which is a nonprofit, less than a year with the private Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:55

And I do think it takes conditioning just like anything.

Sandra Lopez: 00:06:58

And so I'm just, you know, practicing my trade, learning how to be the

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:02

best Board of Directors for the companies that I said I would like to

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:07

participate and believe I can add value.

Erica Seidel: 00:07:09

Can you talk about how you've educated a Board about marketing,

Erica Seidel: 00:07:12

if you have, and what that looks like?

Erica Seidel: 00:07:15

What teaching like, because many, many Board members don't have

Erica Seidel: 00:07:18

marketing backgrounds and they might think that they know more about

Erica Seidel: 00:07:21

marketing than they actually do.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:23

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:23

Interesting.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:23

And we were talking about this earlier, that apparently there's only about

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:27

forty Board members with marketing pedigree for Fortune 1000 and above.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:32

And so it's not familiar with the Board of Directors, right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:37

There's a lot of people, the CEO, supply chain officers.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:40

And so when you're asking questions when it comes to marketing, this is where my

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:46

P&L general management come into play.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:48

I don't ask the traditional brand awareness questions.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:53

I think about, let's take a look at our revenue growth year projection.

Sandra Lopez: 00:07:59

So I translate a lot of what is important to marketing in the language

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:04

that will be familiar to CEOs, CFO.

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:07

Cuz you have to remember, like your Board of Directors and your fellow

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:10

colleagues come from a different pedigree.

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:13

And so as a CMO marketer, you find yourself oftentimes translating the

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:18

language of marketing into vocabulary in which the CFO and CEO can really get

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:24

behind and lean into the conversation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:26

The worst thing is you bring a point and everybody just dismisses you.

Erica Seidel: 00:08:30

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:30

And so how do you bring a point that has people thinking and really

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:35

leaning in so that we can advise the CEO and/or the leadership team in terms

Sandra Lopez: 00:08:41

of possible paths to move forward with?

Erica Seidel: 00:08:43

And do you feel like CEOs and CFOs sometimes glom onto certain

Erica Seidel: 00:08:47

terms of marketing but not others?

Erica Seidel: 00:08:49

You know, so in another one of these podcasts we talked about how there

Erica Seidel: 00:08:52

are some terms that people just get.

Erica Seidel: 00:08:54

You know, they get ICP, they get persona.

Erica Seidel: 00:08:57

They get positioning more than they get branding, you know?

Erica Seidel: 00:09:00

And, and have you, have you found that to be the case where there's,

Erica Seidel: 00:09:03

like, some terms that, that fly and that other marketing terms just flop?

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:09

I mean, I think it's one of those things that's just

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:10

the perception that we have, right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:12

So I do believe what transpires is there's a perception of marketing.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:17

Marketing is about value proposition, positioning, logos, the PowerPoint

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:23

presentation, helping sales sell n.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:26

And that's all familiar.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:29

And where you start to kind of gloss over is when you start to think about, uh,

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:34

you know, they're all familiar with CTR.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:35

They've evolved one part of the digital transformation, but you

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:38

start to think about well, long-term value to customer acquisition,

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:43

and then you start to translate that and a CFO gets it right away.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:47

So I do think there is this bias, you know, talking about customer

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:53

segmentation and new customer.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:54

They get all of that.

Erica Seidel: 00:09:55

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:56

And then the question is, well, how is that going to translate

Sandra Lopez: 00:09:59

to meaningful business impact?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:00

Cuz oftentimes in the Board of Directors, you're there to help grow.

Erica Seidel: 00:10:03

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:04

And so when you're thinking about questions that you wanna ask,

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:08

and I oftentimes think about like, how am I gonna frame this question-

Erica Seidel: 00:10:11

Hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:12

-so that the CEOs of other companies that are part

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:14

of Board of Directors or CEOs understand what I'm trying to get at?

Erica Seidel: 00:10:20

Mm-hmm.

Erica Seidel: 00:10:20

Is there any other example of, like, a before and after

Erica Seidel: 00:10:23

framing that comes to mind?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:26

It's easy to say, hey, we're gonna go upmarket and reach a

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:30

particular new customer sec- section.

Erica Seidel: 00:10:32

Sure.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:33

And I'm just gonna be careful I'm not disclosing

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:35

information of confidential, so I'll give you just like a generic example.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:39

We're gonna go after this new customer segment and then the question will

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:44

be, well, let's think about that segment and the cost of entry.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:48

Right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:49

What will be the ROI?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:50

What is the additional revenue that could be generated if we're

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:54

gonna bring on this new customers?

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:56

This customer segment carries this.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:58

This is the demographics.

Sandra Lopez: 00:10:59

This is the attitudes.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:01

This is what we think of the market opportunity at a high level.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:03

But like you gotta keep on pushing.

Erica Seidel: 00:11:05

Hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:06

Yeah, this is maybe a market size that represents

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:11

$1 billion, potentially.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:13

That's a total tamp.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:14

But how, have we done the analysis of what this segment will bring from

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:20

additive revenue over the next five years?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:23

How much do we need to invest?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:25

What does that investment strategy look like?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:27

So that goes back to the the, to eventually capture that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:30

What happens from an operations standpoint?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:32

What happens from customer service?

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:34

This new customer segment is radically different from our current

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:38

customer base, which means that we have to operate differently.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:43

So this is not just an exercise around new customer segmentation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:46

This is like operations.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:47

You have to think about customer service.

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:50

There are so many elements that come into play, and so that's one example

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:54

that I always like to use is that it's easy to have the CMO come in, talk

Sandra Lopez: 00:11:59

about new market segment, and then it's your job as a Board of Directors.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:02

And being a marketer, like many of us have gone through this before.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:06

We know that it's just much more than doing effective direct marketing

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:09

and using digital marketing.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:11

There are elements that come into play that touch other organizations.

Erica Seidel: 00:12:14

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:15

So really thinking about that and kind of framing

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:17

those conversations is like another example that I like to use, typically

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:20

marketers are really good at, is in terms of knowing your customer,

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:23

what does segmentation look like?

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:26

But what does it really mean to enter into that market segment?

Erica Seidel: 00:12:31

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:31

Do you need to hire different types of personnel in terms

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:34

of driving conversations with them?

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:37

So really framing it, going back to, I always like to say, like, you

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:40

just go back to think like a CFO.

Erica Seidel: 00:12:43

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:43

I think that really helps.

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:45

And we, because we have only forty or so CMOs in the Board of Directors,

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:50

we have the responsibility on our shoulders to illustrate that we

Sandra Lopez: 00:12:54

can drive very meaningful business.

Erica Seidel: 00:12:58

Have you seen a really good way of learning how to

Erica Seidel: 00:13:01

be that CMO who thinks like a CFO?

Erica Seidel: 00:13:04

You know, is it shadowing the CFO?

Erica Seidel: 00:13:06

Is it, um, I, I don't know.

Erica Seidel: 00:13:09

Like, asking for, you know, like, you know, sharing goals and, and,

Erica Seidel: 00:13:15

and coming up with some kind of, like, translation dictionary or

Erica Seidel: 00:13:17

something like, like, like is there anything that comes to mind there?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:20

I love all your ideas.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:21

So shadowing's always great.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:23

And then oftentimes, you know, they're not necessarily available

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:25

cuz you have a busy calendar.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:27

So you have to kind of be realistic in terms of what's feasible.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:30

And so if you think about an exercise that you're doing in marketing, so

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:34

let's think about the hottest thing in performance based marketing.

Erica Seidel: 00:13:37

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:38

Right?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:38

Everybody's talking about that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:40

It requires digital transformation, which oftentimes means you

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:43

need to sit down with your CTO.

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:45

Can you sit down with your CFO and agree on the L to beta cap ratio?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:50

What does that mean?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:51

And what does that look like?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:52

Can you start modeling P&Ls?

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:54

I always like to tell individuals, kind of hate the word performance marketing,

Sandra Lopez: 00:13:58

cuz the reality is you're a mini GM.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:01

You're responsible for revenue and hitting targets, and in order to

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:06

drive performance-based marketing, you have a Mar- MarTech stack

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:09

that's underneath, which actually costs me whether it's licensing-

Erica Seidel: 00:14:12

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:12

Whether you're working with your IT department to build out

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:15

some technology and features, which they're gonna charge back to you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:19

And so that to me is like, it's the spirit of like, there's cost, there's

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:23

revenue, there's efficiencies, and there's margins that you have to [inaudible].

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:27

So performance-based marketers, to me, I always tell 'em like,

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:30

you guys are running a P&L.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:32

Like reframe what your accountability responsibility is.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:37

And I know if you have, if you're co-dependent, if you have a sales

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:40

department and they're not getting the lead flow, they're gonna point

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:43

fingers at you because they need that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:45

And so you're directly tied to revenue.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:48

And so that's one example that I think you can sit there with your

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:52

CFO and you bring them along the journey and build a relationship.

Sandra Lopez: 00:14:56

And so you have to meet with your CFO then on a monthly basis and/or

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:00

like a weekly basis, depending on how you're looking at your numbers.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:04

And then you start to, like, have those times to ask curiosity and

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:07

ask them about different things.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:09

Oftentimes, when you are looking at brand architecture strategies and

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:13

you're redeveloping an entire, you have multiple logos you're trying to simplify.

Erica Seidel: 00:15:17

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:18

Will that impact in terms of lesser choice?

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:21

Is it gonna cannibalize one or the other products?

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:24

That's yet another opportunity to bring a CFO into the journey and talk

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:28

about, let's do some modeling together.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:32

Oftentimes what I had seen is brand architecture strategies that

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:37

talk about the business rationale, but there's no financial number.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:41

They'll talk to you about what it's gonna cost, what it's gonna cost to

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:43

overhaul the entire thing and all the collateral that needs to get

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:46

updated, both analog and digital.

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:50

Yet I never see if we were to simplify the brand, what could this

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:55

look like on the financial side?

Sandra Lopez: 00:15:57

Or if we're gonna do a massive brand transition and reposition

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:01

the brand in its totality from one point to another point, will it

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:06

alienate your existing customer base?

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:08

And if so, well what, what could that be from a sales perspective?

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:12

So you can model all this stuff.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:13

You can, sitting down with the CMO, there are tools and there abilities.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:16

I've done this before.

Erica Seidel: 00:16:16

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:17

And so I would say to any CMO or any marketing person that's eager

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:21

to go into a Board seat and starting to, like, practice the language of the CFOs,

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:25

take some existing projects where you're like, wow, if I were to do this with a

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:30

CFO, what could we model financially?

Erica Seidel: 00:16:33

Hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:34

And then over time, your CFO becomes your mentor and an advisor to you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:37

And, and that's what happened to me when I was at Intel I had an invi-

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:41

individual helped guide me as we were going through marketing strategy,

Sandra Lopez: 00:16:45

repositioning efforts, and really understanding the overall business.

Erica Seidel: 00:16:49

So CMOs can fail, as you know, um, because Boards and

Erica Seidel: 00:16:53

CEOs have these expectations of, you know, you should be able to do

Erica Seidel: 00:16:56

marketing, you know, overnight and turn around something overnight.

Erica Seidel: 00:16:59

And then CMOs, so there's this debate about, you know, like,

Erica Seidel: 00:17:02

oh, you should do this faster.

Erica Seidel: 00:17:03

And then a CMO will say, oh, it, it takes time.

Erica Seidel: 00:17:06

How do you think marketing leaders can kind of manage those expectations with

Erica Seidel: 00:17:10

Boards about how long things take?

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:13

You're absolutely right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:15

Uh, there's a lot of education and oftentimes, we've had this

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:19

conversation in the past, that everybody feels they can do marketing.

Erica Seidel: 00:17:21

Yes.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:22

You know, I learned a framework that I thought was very helpful

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:24

that came from [inaudible], which is the strategic decision-making framework.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:28

If you're going on a journey and you're seeking to solve a problem,

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:31

oftentimes, like, your C-level, and yourself, you're not on the same page

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:35

of what problem you're trying to solve.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:37

So go in and understand, like, what problem are we solving?

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:40

Are we, are we on the same position?

Erica Seidel: 00:17:42

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:42

The other thing, too, is, like, and what are the milestones?

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:45

Here's why it takes time to do market research, right?

Erica Seidel: 00:17:48

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:49

We want to capture, not only part of our customer segment,

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:53

we are a global brand by very nature.

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:55

We have to go to Europe, we have to go to, like, Asia, and

Sandra Lopez: 00:17:59

we want to enlarge sampling.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:01

And we also wanna pivot along the way as we're learning about some

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:03

research around specific focus groups.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:06

And we wanna get this right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:08

Because once you get the idea, then you go into execution and it's gonna

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:11

cost much more if we get it wrong.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:14

So there's going to be five-month window of market research, and then

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:19

they'll, you go into production and, like, why does production take forever?

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:23

And you just have to explain in terms of what you're trying to get accomplished

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:27

and how you're gonna pull it out.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:29

And so oftentimes what I find myself learning is that you have to bring

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:34

your C-level onto the journey.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:37

And I always like to do, like, here's critical milestones.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:39

Hey, we learned this from this focus group in the United States and in Europe.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:43

Here's what we're learning.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:44

It didn't necessarily, necessarily align to our hypothesis.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:47

We think we're gonna pivot.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:47

Here are three options.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:49

What are your thoughts?

Erica Seidel: 00:18:51

Hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:51

So now a person's, like, actually joining you

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:54

on your journey and as part.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:57

And you help educate along the way.

Sandra Lopez: 00:18:58

So you've gotta look at these big, strategic initiatives as

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:01

opportunities to help educate and bring them along the journey.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:04

And I always do check checkpoints.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:06

And I know sometimes my team members are like, you're slowing down the process

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:09

because you're sitting down with your C, you know, C-level, and I'm like, no,

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:12

actually I'm speeding up the process.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:14

So when we're down the road and my CEO has some feedback, which

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:18

requires us to go back and redo production, that elongates the process.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:23

So, thinking about these check-ins with your senior leadership is important.

Erica Seidel: 00:19:27

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:28

Realize it's always an education and ask a lot of

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:32

questions like, why do you think focus groups should take point?

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:35

How do you think the process is?

Erica Seidel: 00:19:37

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:38

Well, let me tell you why the process is the way

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:40

it's, it is, and we're learning and adjusting and we'll do technology

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:43

to move the process much faster.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:45

It used to be, you know, eight months, now we're doing five months.

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:48

So I, I do think, like, also asking why do they believe something should

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:53

be done a certain way helps strive self-awareness that they really

Sandra Lopez: 00:19:57

don't understand the underpinnings.

Erica Seidel: 00:19:59

Mm-hmm.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:00

Yeah.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:00

That's really smart.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:01

And the, the idea that people don't learn something in half an hour, right?

Erica Seidel: 00:20:04

It's like in, in the way you educate somebody is not by saying like,

Erica Seidel: 00:20:07

everything you're doing is wrong.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:08

This is how you should do it.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:10

It's, it's almost like you kind of sidle up to them and you're like, oh,

Erica Seidel: 00:20:14

eight out the ten things, ten ways you see this are right, and then here

Erica Seidel: 00:20:17

are the remaining two need to be, you know, kind of adjusted in this way.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:22

I do think it's much more of a discussion.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:24

Listen, you're on the same team.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:26

I mean, fundamentally like you and your leadership are on the same team

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:29

and you're creating the playbook.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:30

And so sometimes like the playbook, like, oh, you know what?

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:34

Your C-level has a point of view that I could have overlooked.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:37

And you're like, you know what?

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:38

Your point's extremely valid.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:39

I'm gonna take that in.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:40

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:40

And in some cases, they have a very strong point of

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:43

view, and based on all your history and knowledge, you're like, this is

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:46

gonna send us in the wrong direction.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:47

And you just have to take time and say, let me show you the pros and cons.

Erica Seidel: 00:20:51

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:51

What I've learned is like, don't say no right

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:54

away to your leadership.

Sandra Lopez: 00:20:55

Provide the framework, help them understand so that you can land in

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:00

the best outcome for the shareholders.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:02

I always say, like, at the end of the day, we're on the same team.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:05

It's about the shareholders, and when I say shareholders, it's the, your

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:08

employees, the C-level, the Board of Directors, if you have stock, you know?

Erica Seidel: 00:21:13

Mm-hmm.

Erica Seidel: 00:21:14

Let me segue a little bit here, and I would love to hear your thoughts

Erica Seidel: 00:21:18

about nonprofit Boards as a way for marketing leaders to kind of

Erica Seidel: 00:21:23

get some practice and transition towards being on for-profit Boards.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:28

Listen, I've had amazing mentors helping me guide me through

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:33

the path to Board of Directors.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:35

And I started, I was three years before I landed my first Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:39

And everybody has a different point of view, everybody's gonna advise you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:42

And so again, I'm gonna provide one perspective.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:46

I was o- open to a nonprofit Board, but I've also worked on nonprofits

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:49

before in terms of giving my time.

Erica Seidel: 00:21:51

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:52

And so you have to pick judiciously.

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:54

What do you wanna get out of it?

Sandra Lopez: 00:21:56

So I wanted to get my practice in a, yes, I've done some Board readiness

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:00

programs, but nothing, like, you can do all the training, but it's

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:04

nothing like showing up and planning.

Erica Seidel: 00:22:06

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:06

And so, I looked at who was leading the Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:10

I looked at the Board composition, and they were all highly successful

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:15

C-level executives that have Board experience of private and public.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:20

And I knew that in how they run their operations gave me the feeling

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:26

of a private and/or public Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:28

So I decided to do that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:30

That was the right thing for me.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:32

And so when I tell people, like, really think about the Board that

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:35

you wanna join your first one.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:37

Look at what you're trying to get out of it.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:38

And so in this profit one, it aligns to my values in giving

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:42

back to the future generation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:44

So synergistically, I'm like, yes, love Junior Achievement.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:47

They were part of my life when I was growing up.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:49

Two, I look at the composition.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:51

What does it look like?

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:52

And three, how do they function?

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:55

And they function very akin to a private Board.

Sandra Lopez: 00:22:58

And so that gives me the exposure, the experience, and bringing that value to

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:04

another private Board in terms of just getting that practice in and knowing what

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:08

I'm responsible for as Board of Directors.

Erica Seidel: 00:23:11

How did you figure out how they functioned?

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:14

There's a lot of Board readiness curriculum

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:17

that exists out there.

Erica Seidel: 00:23:18

Sure.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:18

So you have the National Association of Corporate Directors.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:21

You take a look at them.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:23

They have some programs.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:24

Julie, who's the CEO of How We Lead here in San Francisco, has

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:28

a robust Board readiness program.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:30

And you learn.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:31

You learn what's expected of you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:33

You also learn the liability that you have for publicly traded companies.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:37

You also learn the time required.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:38

Everybody's, like, thinks that you're gonna be there for the one supporter.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:42

And no, it's a lot more that you have to contribute.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:45

You have to be well-read.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:47

You have to read the materials in advance.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:49

You have most, part of a committee.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:51

So if you're part of the committee, you have to meet outside of the Board meeting.

Sandra Lopez: 00:23:56

And so my recommendation is participate in Board readiness programs.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:02

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:02

And you'll meet, will build your network and some of them will

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:05

land Boards and a lot of that landing a Board is not dissimilar from a job in

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:10

terms of the power of the networking.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:13

If somebody's gonna recommend you for a particular Board,

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:16

and that's how the doors open.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:18

So both of the Boards that I've landed have been part of my network.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:21

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:22

Not been me necessarily knowing that Board positions open and

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:26

reaching out to the CEO and the chairman.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:28

It has been through my network.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:31

Let's talk about interviewing with Boards, like whether

Erica Seidel: 00:24:33

that's for a Board seat or a CMO seat.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:37

How should they, uh, kind of prepare?

Erica Seidel: 00:24:39

How should they appear, and what questions might be most, you know, surprising,

Erica Seidel: 00:24:42

you know, based on your experience?

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:44

At least in my experience, it's so different

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:46

from delay landing you a job.

Erica Seidel: 00:24:50

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:50

Because they've already identified you based

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:53

on the background and pedigree.

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:55

In most cases, they already know, and that you've already been highly recommended

Sandra Lopez: 00:24:58

by somebody in your network that, you know, Sandra would be a very great fit.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:02

Here's her pedigree.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:03

Here's what she's done.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:04

She's really great for digital transformation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:06

You know, she's an advocate for the underrepresented community,

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:10

and so she can add value from an people, culture standpoint as well.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:13

They know you're background.

Erica Seidel: 00:25:15

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:15

It is all pretty much done.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:16

So you're just sitting there and you're having conversations just to see can,

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:21

can I sit there with you for a couple hours and have meaningful business

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:25

conversations during the Board meeting?

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:28

Can I sit there and have that dinner conversation with you?

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:30

Oftentimes, there's a dinner the day before, the night of.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:33

It's about clicking.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:35

You have to click as a Board and you are also personality wise, can I

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:41

get along with the various members?

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:42

And you interview with a couple, you know, not all of 'em, and you have conversations

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:46

about your personal life, philosophies.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:49

And I would, what I'd suggest is like just be yourself.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:52

Just be yourself.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:53

They'll get to know you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:54

They're just getting to know you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:55

You're getting to know them.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:56

Yes, prepare about the company.

Sandra Lopez: 00:25:58

People will say, take every Board interview because you expand your network.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:03

I've taken a different approach, like I've, people reached out to me for

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:06

various Board positions and I remember one, it was all about supply chain

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:10

and it was about transportation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:12

And I was so honored that they considered me and they were considering

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:15

me from a digital transformation, but I was looking at the Board

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:18

requirements and the skillsets that they were looking for, the top three,

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:22

and I'm like, I have none of that.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:23

And I said to the, uh, individual that was recruiting for him,

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:26

I'm like, you know what?

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:28

Super honored.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:29

Yet it's not gonna be the right fit because I will not add

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:32

value for what they're looking for from a talent perspective.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:36

And yes, could I appreciate networking with them?

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:39

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:39

But I'm also, time is very, it's the most precious commodity.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:42

If I already know I'm not gonna be the right fit, I decided to bow out.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:46

And so people are gonna give you different advice.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:48

Other people would say, like, you should have taken, you know,

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:49

you should have gone through the interview process and met more people.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:52

And I'm like, that's okay.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:54

The time is too precious.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:55

So we have all different ways of how to land Boards and recommendations.

Sandra Lopez: 00:26:59

Mine is one recommendation of many on your journey to be a Board member.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:04

Then, I would say, look at the requirements.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:07

Know what your contribution is going to be.

Erica Seidel: 00:27:09

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:10

Be very crystal clear about that because they're gonna

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:13

look to your filling an important role and oftentimes when, in some

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:18

of the Boards they're gonna pay you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:20

Think about the ROI that you're delivering.

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:23

Are they getting every dime's worth out of what they're compensating

Sandra Lopez: 00:27:27

you for to be at Board of Directors?

Erica Seidel: 00:27:29

Yeah, and I feel it's the same thing when you're

Erica Seidel: 00:27:31

interviewing for a CMO job, right?

Erica Seidel: 00:27:33

If you get a, a, you know, approached about a job and it's not quite the right

Erica Seidel: 00:27:37

fit for you, it's probably better to kind of educate whoever it is, the recruiter,

Erica Seidel: 00:27:42

the CEO, you know, whatever, because it's, it's, it's like good karma, you know?

Erica Seidel: 00:27:46

Like you, you know, the person might then say, oh, okay, this

Erica Seidel: 00:27:48

is maybe not the right fit.

Erica Seidel: 00:27:50

But then there's something else that, you know, like the recruit, like

Erica Seidel: 00:27:53

I've had that conversation with, with candidates where they're like, okay, no,

Erica Seidel: 00:27:55

sounds like you're looking for A, B, C.

Erica Seidel: 00:27:58

I'm more X, Y, Z, and then I might call them up in a month, like,

Erica Seidel: 00:28:00

oh, actually you said X, Y, Z.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:02

You clarified and, and you know, here we have something

Erica Seidel: 00:28:04

that's a little more aligned.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:07

A hundred percent agree with you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:08

Very, I mean, I think ultimately you wanna set yourself up for success.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:12

You wanna land a Board seat, so then you're recommending somebody

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:15

else for yet another Board seat.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:17

And that's how the flywheel affects.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:19

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:19

And eventually, like, you know, we retire from your full-time job.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:22

And so when you're looking for Board seats, you also, like, try to find

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:27

somebody, it's called "over-Boarded" where some, somebody has way too

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:30

many Boards and Board opportunities will come to him, she, her, they.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:35

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:35

And they'll say, I'm already like, I'm Boarded up.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:37

And then they'll say, hey, but I know somebody else that's interested.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:40

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:40

And so look for those individuals that are Boarded up

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:44

that are passing on opportunities cuz they have too many Boards.

Sandra Lopez: 00:28:47

That's a great way just to start to open up the doors.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:51

Oh yeah.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:52

Boarded up.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:52

That's funny.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:53

Yeah, and I, it's funny you say that cuz I give that same feedback to

Erica Seidel: 00:28:57

people who are looking for CMO jobs.

Erica Seidel: 00:28:58

I say like, you know, identify, you know, I don't know, three, five,

Erica Seidel: 00:29:01

ten CMOs who have the job you want.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:04

Right.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:04

Because they're probably going to get pinged about

Erica Seidel: 00:29:07

roles that you would want too.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:09

And maybe they don't want that role or the timing isn't right or the

Erica Seidel: 00:29:12

location isn't right or whatever.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:14

But you know, you want them to pass on to you what they are saying no to themselves.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:18

And it's, and it's, it's funny.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:20

And you say that system to people and people are like, oh, wow,

Erica Seidel: 00:29:22

I hadn't thought about that.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:24

So...[light laughing]

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:26

No, it's true.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:27

And you're absolutely right.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:28

Any other thoughts about how a CMO should be

Erica Seidel: 00:29:31

interviewing, uh, with the Board?

Erica Seidel: 00:29:33

Aside, aside from, you know, kind of making sure that there is that click

Erica Seidel: 00:29:37

and aside from, you know, having the, the things that you wanna get out of it.

Erica Seidel: 00:29:41

Anything else that a CMO should be kind of alert to as they're

Erica Seidel: 00:29:47

interviewing with a Board?

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:48

I would say, like, have the conversation around like, hey,

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:51

there's not a lot of CMOs in Board seats.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:54

Why is that?

Erica Seidel: 00:29:55

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:55

What are you guys looking for?

Erica Seidel: 00:29:56

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:29:57

Why are you considering myself that has a pedigree?

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:00

And what is of interest to you?

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:01

Like those, I think those are interesting, very interesting conversations.

Erica Seidel: 00:30:04

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:05

Oftentimes as CMOs, like one thing that we've had to go

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:09

through over the last decade or so or more is digital transformation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:15

That is a skill set that many companies continue to look for.

Erica Seidel: 00:30:20

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:20

And so think about like, let's put like that part of your job.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:25

You could add value, like to help me understand where the organization

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:28

is from a digital transformation.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:29

Hey, I have expertise in X, Y, Z.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:32

Do you think that could be of value to the organization or the Board?

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:37

So I would say digital transformation is a hot skillset that all industries are

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:43

looking for to see and understand, and we as marketers have had to go through.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:47

And then the other thing too, like it's often overlooked that I would say

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:51

great marketers, agnostic of B2B and B2C, we know where the puck is going.

Sandra Lopez: 00:30:57

We're very in tune with like society and human beings and how they

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:03

interact and how they like to buy.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:05

That intuition, a CFO does not usually- maybe a CEO from a visionary standpoint.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:11

Steve Jobs is a perfect example.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:13

But we as marketers have such a solid understanding and saying, do you

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:17

understand what's about to happen to your business with generative AI and

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:22

what we're seeing and how it's gonna impact the- your customer set, and/or

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:28

you internally within the organization and driving those type of conversations.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:32

Those are really good in terms of bringing that expertise that you have

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:37

as a marketer around culture, society, buying habits that helps inform when

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:43

a company's going through, like, an organizational transformation.

Erica Seidel: 00:31:46

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:46

And oftentimes we're finding ourselves going through organizational

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:48

transformation at an accelerated rate.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:50

We just got outta Covid.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:52

We tried to figure out hybrid.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:53

We're still trying to figure out hybrid.

Sandra Lopez: 00:31:54

And now generative AI is on the horizon, so it's nonstop.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:00

Your value will always be there, and I think a lot of it is framing

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:04

of the conversation that we as marketers need to do a better job on.

Erica Seidel: 00:32:10

My final question is just any thoughts on how we can

Erica Seidel: 00:32:12

increase that proportion of Board seats that are filled by marketers?

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:17

I just don't hear that the marketing community talking about it.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:19

It's ironic.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:20

I was at, on a, a podcast and we were talking about this very, and I, I

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:25

rarely, when I interact with my fellow marketing colleagues at various levels,

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:30

Boards are not on their list of kind of professional development lately.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:34

And I'm like, well, why not?

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:36

So I think we as marketers have the opportunity to drive a greater

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:41

conversation at the various marketing conferences that exist in terms of

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:45

why CMOs need to have a seat at the table from a Board perspective and

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:47

articulating the business rationale.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:50

I just don't, I don't hear it.

Erica Seidel: 00:32:52

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:53

And you look at marketing conferences that exist and the CMO

Sandra Lopez: 00:32:57

Council and all the, we know together from a smaller community, and I look

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:02

at the paneling, I look at programming.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:04

When have you seen programming around why don't CMOs have a seat

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:07

at the table of Board of Directors?

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:09

It's rare.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:11

I don't think I've ever seen it.

Erica Seidel: 00:33:12

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:13

And so I think it starts with us in terms of

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:16

driving the conversation and then challenging the industry at large.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:22

I mean, we're marketers.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:22

We can come up, if we can unify and come up with campaigning and get

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:26

executive recruiters and get, you know, chairmen and CEOs to think about us.

Erica Seidel: 00:33:30

Yeah.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:31

Maybe we'd see more from forty.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:33

Like, you know, I'm a very big, like, OKR, KPI, can, so we have forty now, can we,

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:38

can we look at let's adding twenty more.

Erica Seidel: 00:33:40

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:41

By the end of the year.

Erica Seidel: 00:33:43

Right.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:43

And the only way do that is through creating, which we

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:46

all know, awareness and converting awareness to action, which is landing

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:52

a couple of people on Board seats.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:53

So I'm happy to assist, provide guidance.

Sandra Lopez: 00:33:57

I'm a very big believer that we need more marketers in Board seats.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:00

That is part of diversity of thought.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:02

We talk about Board composition and we need diversity anchored on ethnicity.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:05

Mm-hmm.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:06

I think ethnicity, disability.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:09

And different functions represented.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:13

Makes sense.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:13

Awesome.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:14

Well, thank you so much for joining this show, Sandra.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:16

It's been great to have you.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:18

Likewise.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:18

Thank you so much, Erica.

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:19

Thank you for leaning in and helping drive awareness and hopefully

Sandra Lopez: 00:34:22

we'll see twenty more CMOs on Board seats by the end of the, the year.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:26

That's the KPI.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:27

All right.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:28

Awesome.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:28

Sandra Lopez, thank you.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:32

That was Sandra Lopez.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:34

Now that you've heard from her, think about what steps you can take this year

Erica Seidel: 00:34:38

to prepare yourself for Board service.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:40

And how can you add to the momentum of more marketing leaders in Board seats?

Erica Seidel: 00:34:45

Next time on The Get, your guest will be me.

Erica Seidel: 00:34:49

We're going to review the top themes from this season, the key ahas and

Erica Seidel: 00:34:53

tips on how CMOs can best interact with Boards from before they join a company

Erica Seidel: 00:34:58

to while they're in the CMO seat, to when they join Boards themselves.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:02

Don't miss it.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:04

Thanks for listening to The Get.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:06

I'm your host, Erica Seidel.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:08

The Get is here to drive smart decisions around recruiting and

Erica Seidel: 00:35:11

leadership in B2B SaaS marketing.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:14

We explore the trends, tribulations, and triumphs of today's top

Erica Seidel: 00:35:18

marketing leaders in B2B SaaS.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:20

If you liked this episode, please share it.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:22

For more about The Get, visit thegetpodcast.com.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:26

To learn more about my executive search practice, which focuses on recruiting the

Erica Seidel: 00:35:30

make-money marketing leaders rather than the make-it-pretty ones, follow me on

Erica Seidel: 00:35:34

LinkedIn or visit theconnectivegood.com.

Erica Seidel: 00:35:38

The Get is produced by Evo Terra of Simpler Media Productions.